I hear quite often that prostitution would be a wonderfully pleasant industry if it were only legal, which does not square with the experiences of countries where it is legal or tolerated.
You pretty much have to be running schoolgirls out of homeroom to get the Nagoya police to so much as glance in your direction, but Japanese prostitution is a very, very ugly place to be, and much of it is based on trafficking. I live two hundred feet from a "Korean aesthetic salon" which is open at three A. One of the not-so-young ladies who works there has taken to sleeping on the bus bench across the street recently, in heat which has nearly sent me to the hospital twice.
You may have heard that Japan has a storied relationship with its Korean immigrants. Those who do -- to use a nauseating euphemism -- the jobs Japanese girls won't do can expect neglect from polite society, because polite society knows that inquiring into her circumstances means they have to know what goes on in those walls, and they are very interested in keeping up the fiction that they do not know what goes on in those walls.
Or take the European experience. Amsterdam, city of lights, so much more sophisticated than the American puritans, perfectly legal thriving sex trade, right? It has been taken over by Russian mafia who are undercutting the locals via use of trafficked girls from Eastern Europe.
You always have the option as a merchant of sex slaves to one-up what the "morally upright prostitutes" allow, safe in the knowledge that they will cover for you because an investigation into what you are doing harms their business interests. Society, meanwhile, has no great desire to actually police what happens inside of brothels, preferring to believe its sanity-saving fictions like "she wants to be there", "it is just sex between two consenting adults", and "no slaves live on my block.
Prostitution, legal or otherwise, is not pretty. It is based, root and branch, on exploitation. To the extent you think that legalizing it will end the exploitation, you believe something which is contrary to reality. That isn't the model pushed by most advocates of legal prostitution that I've heard - most want prostitution to be legal in the same way that restaurants are.
It actually takes very little to get the authorities to come take a look at your restaurant - complaints of a roach or the computer randomly selecting you for an inspection are usually sufficient. I believe the main reason is that many of these places are run by Yakuza organized crimeand police would rather not stir up the hornet's nest - there's a sort of tacit agreement. You've missed the point. The original premise from patio11 was that legalizing prostitution doesn't automatically make it all safe, aboveboard, and free from crime. Then he used Japan as an example Regardless of how it's treated by the police, the point is that it's not legal, and that skews how the illegal operations work.
The Amsterdam argument is interesting and worthy of further discussion, at least. A lot of places where prostitution is legal, pimping is not, e.
There's less of a trafficking problem in those places, since it can and does get prosecuted though there still are problems, since here sadly is demand for underage prostitutes etc. In the Netherlands, pimping is legal though, which may contribute specifically to the problems they are seeing. I don't think the ban ever happened though. Why do you lump prostitution with sex trafficking? Why do we have to make both legal? Just make sex with two consenting adults legal Prostitution ranges essentially from crack addict street walkers up to 'chat' call girls who are frequently educated enough to maintain conversation with wealthy businessmen.
It's exceptionally naive to think the Russian mob is going to start trafficking in university graduate hookers. What needs to be done is establish an agency to govern and regulate the sex trades, including the money handling.
You want to be a prostitute? You want to be a customer? There's reason to legalize prostitution without even getting onto the matter of the ethics of allowing a woman to have sex for money.
Criminalization allows for corruption. Why does organized crime still manage to rear its ugly head in government?
It should be each women's right to conduct her work in private, with her ouwn guidelines that she is comfortable with. You already have us with a agency in your exampe which means we could not be independents. I am sure most of my clients would not come to visit if I where in some shady agency or spa with someone counting the money. We are not cattel and we do not need anyone to monitor us, if you look at our orginal prostituion laws they where only created to stop a women from showing her wares in pubic.
Nobody is trying to montor how you have sex or with who. Your example is making the government the pimps and then they would be the ones exploiting people. Why do you think sex workers are so dumb they need to be regulated, we are not all addicts and most of us our middle aged sigle moms.
Many of us are supporting our whole famiies because our husbands have been laid off, and we have lost our homes in foreclosure, we are soccor moms, yor neighbors, we could very well be your mother, sister, aunt, cousin or. We only want to be decriminalized and have the same protection under the law.
Hate just for being a sex worker. Okay, be naive and don't even read my comment. Nowhere is going to legalize the sex trades when it goes hand in hand with organized crime.
I know here in Ontario many apartment buildings can actively discriminate against sex workers, drug dealers or anyone working illegally and they can do it quite simply: rent isn't accepted in cash. If you're getting paid in cash, you're not paying taxes and if the government catches a paper trail then you'll be in jail and they'll investigate every iota of your life. Or, like I suggested, the government performs the actions any employer does: pay your income taxes, pay your Employment Insurance, pay your Pension; pay the rest to you. If you don't want to accept the government taking the money that by law they are entitled to through you earning a living, then you will always be illegal.
Either be realistic or stay illegal and naive. Governments will not allow a business that has been hand-in-hand with organized crime to simply go legal and allow the mob their easiest opportunity to money-launder in existence.
If you don't believe your transactions aren't already being monitored, you obviously don't Craiglist Escorts Star ID a bank. My UK card got locked when I first used it in Canada. I don't get why you'd be adverse to the government checking to make sure you're not depositing large sums into foreign bank s when your own bank already checks every detail of your spending to ensure it doesn't break pattern.
I'm sorry if you took offence by what I said, but I really don't give a damn if you're too naive to see the real world. You honestly sound like every whining moron who doesn't want the government taking their income tax. Here at HN we like to discuss things. You add nothing to this discussion but the tired old dogma of the victim. You provide no justification of why the government shouldn't be taking the taxes they're entitled too, you provide nothing.
Don't paint every country with the same brush. In Australia it's legal and regulated. Sure, there are dodgy brothels usually the asian ones but the normal ones are mostly college girls who are earning a bunch of extra cash. Sure, there are dodgy brothels There are "dodgy" brothels like the American South had "dodgy" cotton plantations in the 19th century.
The same myth is widely held about strippers in the United States, and is equally false there. Prostitution, nice clean business, step up into a middle class existence. Social science research on the demographics of prostitutes, in Australia and elsewhere, is legion. Only about a quarter of brother prostitutes either have a degree or are enrolled in college. After 10 years of legal brothels in Queensland, 90 per cent of prostitution here remains either unregulated or illegal, University of Queensland research shows.
You keep quoting s, but you never talk about why those s exist. In Queensland, the reason that is so high is because the government has made it very hard and very expensive for brothels to go legal, and the majority that do go broke. It is more profitable to run an illegal one, than it is to operate a legal one. So though you are statistically correct, your reasoning is not.
Additionally, your own myth about strippers is demonstrably false. I know this because I used to be married to one and was involved in that scene on a personal level for many, many years. Here in NYC, some girls pull six figures. My ex-wife did.
At one point she was making more than I was. While prostitution of some variety does exist in the legal strip clubs in NYC, it still was a relatively small of women.
Most of the girls that I've met and interacted with, which probably s in the 's, fell into four broad : college students, party girls, single mothers and poorly educated immigrants. I would call none of them victims, nor would I ever call them exploited. Most of them are very shrewd, very business minded and are capitalizing on the only resources really afforded to them given their individual situations. In fact, the only sadness I feel about the entire thing is for the lonely men lining up to swallow whole the illusion that within the walls of these places they are wanted, sexually attractive, etc.
It is pretty depressing to watch. That's like hanging out in major league stadiums and concluding that pro baseball players must love their millions, ignoring that the majority are stuck down in the farm system barely making a living wage. That's a pretty ridiculous analogy. Strippers don't have to toil in a minor league strip club in Idaho for five years before finally "making it" to NYC.
All it takes is a bus ticket and a lot of balls figuratively. It's not ridiculous at all. You really think there's not a hierarchy of strip clubs, that the top clubs don't compete for the best strippers, and that every girl who wanted could just buy a bus ticket and end up making six figures stripping in NYC?